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Testing fuel quality, performance, and safety

EtiEti Posts: 107 XPRIZE
In this evolving competition design, teams will demonstrate a green fuel lifecycle that is sustainable, cost-effective, and efficient at scale — thus delivering green fuels that can decarbonize the hardest-to-abate sectors of the modern economy, providing the developing world with access to clean energy, and facilitating a transition to full electrification.

What in its composition must a fuel be tested for before being transferred to its destination and consumed?

What key parameters should the fuel analysis cover to evaluate fuel quality, estimate performance, efficiency, and other interactions throughout the lifecycle (incl. any emissions that result from conversion processes)?

Is there a globally recognized testing framework or standards that can be applied to a wide variety of green fuels (including carbon-based and nitrogen-based fuels)?

Is there a testing lab you'd recommend us to speak with?

Comments

  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Hi @Jesse_Nyokabi, @agval, @railman, @akb, @b0bbybaldi, @RegenTower, @carlbozzuto, @SonyaD, @Magneto, @gyyang, @rayw - Do you know of a testing framework or standards that can be applied to a wide variety of green fuels? What parameters of green fuels should be analyzed to evaluate fuel quality, estimate performance, safety and efficiency.
  • agvalagval Posts: 6
    Hi Sashi,
    In terms of ammonia, there isn't any standard yet. Actually, we are working with the Ammonia Energy Association to set up the first standard for the fuel. Similarly, many other fuels that are still in development have not standard. This goes back to the questions of "how pure? what application? method of storage? etc.". Companies working with ammonia are trying to follow some ISO standards for some conventional impurities, but apart from that there is still a long way to go.
  • raywrayw Posts: 14
    Hi Shashi, There always problems with testing. If the company does it themselves, the results will always be queried. So what we do is pay for a recognised independent analysis company to do it for us and to issue a report which they will comfortably stand behind. There are three companies we choose from:- TUV of Germany; SGS of Switzerlnd; and BSI of the UK.
    In the case of our Green Hydrogen production system we used TUV who selected to choose Soda water which contains CO2 Gas, but we allowed them to choose whatever quality of water they wanted. The result was our Green Hydrogen was 98.5% pure and we consumed all the CO2 in the Soda water as well. The remaining 1.5% was minerals from our Catalyst which was filtered out when the gas was released into containers for TUV's detailed examination. So not only can we produce Green Hydrogen with our Catalyst but we can consume CO2 at the same time. However, we have not tested the limits of how much CO2 can be consumed each time. In all our own previous test that we carried out, the purity of the hydrogen was always in excess of 99% and when the H2 was burnt in a hydrogen adapted internal combustion engine the only emission was Clean Drinkable Water.
  • akbakb Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    When the H2 was burnt in a hydrogen adapted internal combustion engine, what were the emission levels of NOx? @rayw
  • raywrayw Posts: 14
    ZERO
  • EtiEti Posts: 107 XPRIZE
    rayw wrote: »
    Hi Shashi, There always problems with testing. If the company does it themselves, the results will always be queried. So what we do is pay for a recognised independent analysis company to do it for us and to issue a report which they will comfortably stand behind. There are three companies we choose from:- TUV of Germany; SGS of Switzerlnd; and BSI of the UK.
    In the case of our Green Hydrogen production system we used TUV who selected to choose Soda water which contains CO2 Gas, but we allowed them to choose whatever quality of water they wanted. The result was our Green Hydrogen was 98.5% pure and we consumed all the CO2 in the Soda water as well. The remaining 1.5% was minerals from our Catalyst which was filtered out when the gas was released into containers for TUV's detailed examination. So not only can we produce Green Hydrogen with our Catalyst but we can consume CO2 at the same time. However, we have not tested the limits of how much CO2 can be consumed each time. In all our own previous test that we carried out, the purity of the hydrogen was always in excess of 99% and when the H2 was burnt in a hydrogen adapted internal combustion engine the only emission was Clean Drinkable Water.

    Thank you @rayw , who would you recommend speaking to at TUV to learn more? if you prefer, you can also email me eti.shechtman@xprize.org

  • b0bbybaldib0bbybaldi Posts: 16 ✭✭
    @Shashi I would look at DOE's & NREL's standards for this. Other labs suggested here like UL or TUV would be good for a final product as a quality trademark, but they might not be the best place to start with for the actual chemistry regulation of said fuels.
  • carlbozzutocarlbozzuto Posts: 29 ✭✭
    Hydrogen combustion using conventional excess air levels doubles the flame temperature and produces high NOx levels. When IGCC was being promoted as a way to generate hydrogen for use in a combined cycle plant, the synthesis gas that was produced (CO plus H2) had to be diluted in order to meet the NOx levels with the best low NOx combustion technology available today. Of course, an SCR can be used to capture the NOx with the use of more ammonia than standard, so there is an extra cost, but it can be done. Estimates for ammonia combustion (and they are only estimates) indicated that an additional 2% of the ammonia used for combustion would be needed to capture the NOx in an SCR. There are combustion test facilities that can give an indication of performance for these fuels. CANMET is Canada has a combustion test facility that is well instrumented. The University of North Dakota Energy and Environmental Research Center also has good test facilities. GE obtained the former Alstom test lab in Windsor, CT that also has combustion test facilities. BYU has some fundamental combustion experimental facilities. The real question is, "What type of equipment will be used to burn the fuel?". Jet fuel has certain requirements for cleanliness that other applications do not. IC engines have their own specifications. Heating boilers are set up to burn #2 oil. Gas fired industrial boilers need a gas with a heating value near 1000 BTU/SCF. These are all different. Your competition has to specify what type of combustion equipment will be used to burn the fuel.
  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Thanks @agval, @rayw, @akb, @b0bbybaldi and @carlbozzuto for sharing these insights. These details are very helpful. We have taken a note of it and will get back to you with more questions if required. Thanks.
  • raywrayw Posts: 14
    Hi Carlbozzuto, I am in agreement with your comment but as part of our production process we control the temperature of the chemical reaction [this is part of our patent] and we can also control the pressure which we limit to 150Bar. The result is a very clean Green Hydrogen following the filtering of a small, usually 1% of minerals, left over from our catalyst.
  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Hi @AAM_AAU, @cananacar, @massimoguarnieri, @SPSBadwal, @Zita, @MarianoMM, @PhilDeLuna, @zhangx, @echomann, @clabeaux - Is there a testing framework or standard for green fuels? What parameters of green fuels should be analyzed to evaluate fuel quality, estimate performance, safety and efficiency.
  • raywrayw Posts: 14
    Shashi, Our experience of TUV is that they decide who within their organisation will be undertaking the testing once they have all details quantified.
  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Thanks @rayw for the details. If we want to get in touch with TUV to know more details on testing parameters etc, whom should we get in touch with. Also, is there a possibility for you to connect Eti, who is our Research Lead to the concerned person in TUV.
  • akbakb Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2021
    Thank you @carlbozzuto for clarifying that burning hydrogen in air can produce emissions of NOx.

    People often overlook this fact. It is a consequence of the high temperature of combustion and the presence of nitrogen and oxygen in air - rather than the fuel itself.

    So an XPRIZE challenge might be wise to consider the merits of combustion (given the associated pollution challenge) versus using a fuel cell (with no pollutant emissions). Of course nothing is perfect and different life-cycle impacts might arise from the manufacture or end of life processing of fuel cell components - depending on the specific technologies, chemicals and resource derivation. [Personally, I think a push to end most combustion processes might be a good strategy.]

    There are methods to control the quantity of emissions from combustion, but this might be at the expense of another factor (e.g. efficiency, or some life-cycle impact).
  • raywrayw Posts: 14
    Hi Shashi. TUV Germany. We use the local TUV office to our R&D centre which was not in Germany, who then communicate with their Germany based HQ. Then we are informed by the local office whom to expect to undetake the work. You will be directed to the appropriate departments once they know your requirements.
  • EtiEti Posts: 107 XPRIZE
    Hydrogen combustion using conventional excess air levels doubles the flame temperature and produces high NOx levels. When IGCC was being promoted as a way to generate hydrogen for use in a combined cycle plant, the synthesis gas that was produced (CO plus H2) had to be diluted in order to meet the NOx levels with the best low NOx combustion technology available today. Of course, an SCR can be used to capture the NOx with the use of more ammonia than standard, so there is an extra cost, but it can be done. Estimates for ammonia combustion (and they are only estimates) indicated that an additional 2% of the ammonia used for combustion would be needed to capture the NOx in an SCR. There are combustion test facilities that can give an indication of performance for these fuels. CANMET is Canada has a combustion test facility that is well instrumented. The University of North Dakota Energy and Environmental Research Center also has good test facilities. GE obtained the former Alstom test lab in Windsor, CT that also has combustion test facilities. BYU has some fundamental combustion experimental facilities. The real question is, "What type of equipment will be used to burn the fuel?". Jet fuel has certain requirements for cleanliness that other applications do not. IC engines have their own specifications. Heating boilers are set up to burn #2 oil. Gas fired industrial boilers need a gas with a heating value near 1000 BTU/SCF. These are all different. Your competition has to specify what type of combustion equipment will be used to burn the fuel.

    @carlbozzuto Thank you for your insightful comments; we are currently researching and shortlisting the target end-uses and conversion technologies; generally thinking to benchmark to diesel to enable demonstration of all functions (combustion, heat generation and electrification) per the hard-abate-sector most associated with each and the relevant, dominant conversion technology. This is the approach at a high level, and any feedback is much appreciated. I'll also prepare a post with more detail and notify you. Best, Eti
  • b0bbybaldib0bbybaldi Posts: 16 ✭✭
    @Shashi also look into what they have done in Brazil with Ethanol, in Germany with BioDiesel and even the oil industry with the Ethanol additives, those working use cases are probably the best place to start for this endeavour.
  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Hi @RenewableNexus, @nibizijeanmarie, @mounir, @Febbie, @marcelschreier, @mikelandmeier, @lauramatrax - Do you know of a testing framework or standard for green fuels? What parameters of green fuels should be analyzed to evaluate fuel quality, estimate performance, safety and efficiency. Thanks.
  • lauramatraxlauramatrax Posts: 3
    Eti wrote: »
    In this evolving competition design, teams will demonstrate a green fuel lifecycle that is sustainable, cost-effective, and efficient at scale — thus delivering green fuels that can decarbonize the hardest-to-abate sectors of the modern economy, providing the developing world with access to clean energy, and facilitating a transition to full electrification.

    What in its composition must a fuel be tested for before being transferred to its destination and consumed?

    What key parameters should the fuel analysis cover to evaluate fuel quality, estimate performance, efficiency, and other interactions throughout the lifecycle (incl. any emissions that result from conversion processes)?

    Is there a globally recognized testing framework or standards that can be applied to a wide variety of green fuels (including carbon-based and nitrogen-based fuels)?

    Is there a testing lab you'd recommend us to speak with?

    This is a really interesting point, and one I have not heard considered. I know there are standards for car fuel, however a more encompassing standard to measure green fuels should be explored in more context, assuming nothing else exists. I believe it is important to encompass the whole lifecycle taking account of embodied impacts. This is when you can really inform change, as it is pointless to make one part of the process efficient when there could be inefficiency within the embodied supply of the product. A cradle to grave evaluation should be considered as part of any framework.

    I used to work for the Building Research Establishment (BRE.co.uk) where they have some of the world testing experts. Energy efficiency, testing and life cycle analysis of products and processes is something they excel at, so I would definitely consult with them on this topic. I can make introductions to the individuals who would be able to identify a robust measurement framework in this area as they work across all industry sectors.
  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Hi @anis, @erinnvw, @adventureashr, @Irina, @Mahmoudburai, @Access600, @Shepard, @KeithDPatch, @dwcollins1960, @CamCarbonCapture, @hopkepk, @bartc, @jwangjun, @ACESChris, @peterstyring, @Adaryani, @josephjjames - curious to know if you have any inputs to share on testing framework or standard for green fuels? What parameters of green fuels should be analyzed to evaluate fuel quality, estimate performance, safety and efficiency.
  • KeithDPatchKeithDPatch Posts: 10 ✭✭
    The carbon intensity of green molecules is very important.
    I was on CertifHy Work Group 1, which established the world's first Guarantees of Origin (GoO) for low-carbon, green hydrogen in the EU. And I have recently suggested to Australian non-profits that they align their green hydrogen certification with CertifHy's GoO. Otherwise, the EU might refuse to buy any blue or green Australian hydrogen.
  • ShashiShashi Posts: 596 admin
    Thanks @KeithDPatch and @lauramatrax for sharing this insights.
  • EtiEti Posts: 107 XPRIZE
    edited March 2021
    akb wrote: »
    Thank you @carlbozzuto for clarifying that burning hydrogen in air can produce emissions of NOx.

    People often overlook this fact. It is a consequence of the high temperature of combustion and the presence of nitrogen and oxygen in air - rather than the fuel itself.

    So an XPRIZE challenge might be wise to consider the merits of combustion (given the associated pollution challenge) versus using a fuel cell (with no pollutant emissions). Of course nothing is perfect and different life-cycle impacts might arise from the manufacture or end of life processing of fuel cell components - depending on the specific technologies, chemicals and resource derivation. [Personally, I think a push to end most combustion processes might be a good strategy.]

    There are methods to control the quantity of emissions from combustion, but this might be at the expense of another factor (e.g. efficiency, or some life-cycle impact).

    @akb We were actually considering how to best address it -- account for the importance of the transition to clean, renewable energy (acknowledging that a lot of the existing infrastructure/conversion tech is often slow to change), but help promote a future of electrification. One approach was to demonstrate all use cases but evaluate (score) differently. Do you see value in this? or, do you other ideas?
  • carlbozzutocarlbozzuto Posts: 29 ✭✭
    The problem that you are faced with is that some portions of the economy do not fit well with electrification. Thus, you would have to think about how those sectors could be made carbon neutral. Hydrogen as a fuel has some issues. The real question is whether resolving those issues is really cheaper than CCS, which would allow the use of a fossil fuel in its current mode. Think about a jet aircraft. Hydrogen is not a real solution for that sector. Jet fuel can be made from biomass, for example, but at what cost. And if that process involves CCS, that begs the question of why CCS cannot be used elsewhere. You have to think about how thermal energy is needed and used. The cement making process uses thermal energy to calcine limestone. Even if the energy source is carbon free, the limestone is not. Calcium carbonate breaks down to lime and CO2. That CO2 would still have to be captured and either stored or utilized. Relative to the cost issue, it makes a difference what kind of entity owns the process. Different entities have different costs of capital (ie money). That will make the comparison between whatever fuel is produced and CCS more difficult. I would suggest, as a first concept, that the cost of whatever clean fuel is produced has to be compared to the cost of burning natural gas with CCS. Natural gas has the advantage of storage, transportability, and existing infrastructure. CCS, right now, is problematical as there is no sequestration site that has the capacity to accept large quantities of CO2 and prove that it remains sequestered. There are current uses for CO2, but not enough to handle gigaton levels. On a US basis, if around 20% of current CO2 emissions eventually had to be captured and stored, the sequestration site, or sites, would have to accept around 1.4 gigatons/yr. That assumes that the other 80% gets done by other means. Solar and wind, by themselves, will not be able to accomplish this economically. Their capacity factor is too low. Here in New England, the capacity factor for roof top solar is 11%. A battery, by itself, does not solve this problem. A battery is not an energy source. It has to be charged from an energy source. If that source is roof top solar, then to get a steady Mw on a 24/7 basis, at least 10 Mw will have to be built. That drives the cost of solar up by a factor of 10, not including the cost of the battery. Substituting hydrogen as the storage medium doesn't change that fundamental. Now that is a worst case scenario. Wind has a 30% capacity factor. Only 3.5 times has to be built. The only problem with wind is that sometimes it doesn't blow for over 2 weeks. Battery storage probably won't cut it. Producing a fuel that can be readily utilized would solve the storage problem, but not necessarily the cost problem. There is a lot to think about.
  • akbakb Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Eti wrote: »
    We were actually considering how to best address it -- account for the importance of the transition to clean, renewable energy (acknowledging that a lot of the existing infrastructure/conversion tech is often slow to change), but help promote a future of electrification. One approach was to demonstrate all use cases but evaluate (score) differently. Do you see value in this? or, do you other ideas?

    It's a complex and challenging subject for sure :-) Complete life-cycle evaluations are very challenging (and subject to significant levels of uncertainty). I'm sure the XPRIZE team will do a good job of the evaluation. Coming at this from the other end (the simple end) there's a few high level factors that we might want to consider:
    • Cost (e.g. capital investment required and operating costs)
    • Likely rate of deployment (based on new technical challenges and/or use of existing infrastructure and systems)
    • Environmental impacts (carbon; air, land and sea pollution; consumption of valuable resources - e.g. land use, deforestation; etc.)

    Perhaps outside the technical remit of an XPRIZE, there's also other factors that determine the rate of adoption, such as support (e.g. enabling laws, grants, taxes, consumer preference), investment and marketing / promotion. So prizes for a range of promising (technical) solutions might be relevant. This would allow governments and companies a set of potential solutions to chose from, based on their own unique circumstances. I envisage that a range of products, systems and infrastructure might feature in the overall solution. e.g. Global Renewable Energy Network.

    Ideally, we might want to apply the same evaluation criteria to all proposed solutions. However, it might [?] be possible to simplify the complex evaluations by having different categories of prizes that only evaluate the most likely (anticipated) relevant factors for each category. [I'm pondering if this is feasible. One potential limitation of the category approach is evaluating a radical innovation, or breakthrough, that doesn't fall into any of the anticipated categories.]
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